Reincarnation

[Segovia]

I've had a thought in my brain for a while. Is the concept of Reincarnation supported by the law of Conservation of Mass and or the law of conservation of energy?

[Bocaj Claw]

Not really. Where does reincarnation fit in with the way the population keeps increasing?

[Segovia]

I was thinking about that too. But if you look at the law of conversation of mass, all mass is transformed into different forms. So when those new babies are born, their matter isn't new. So if you treat a soul as a substance, souls are shared between humans being born.

[nickspoon]

If you are going to presume that the soul is some sort of physical substance or form of energy, then conservation of souls would be sufficient for conservation of energy, but not necessary, because conservation allows for energy to change form; souls could just as easily dissipate as waste heat.

The issue is, as Bocaj points out, that if no new souls were being formed even as of now, then we wouldn't have enough for every organism that needs one. The one-soul-per-human model necessitates a mechanism for the creation of souls to keep up with demand, because there are simply not enough available to be recycled. So, if souls are affected by conservation of energy, there must be some energy source which is depleted due to the making of each new soul.

(How silly.)

[Jakkal]

but its not said, that ALL souls are used at once. If we see "soul" as a combination of diffrent substances C,O,S etc. or as a kind of substance "SO" its not necessary, that all "Souls" are in use. There can be "not used" souls everytime everywhere. When you belive in reinc. you probably are not in a new body, secounds after you left your old one (dead). But like mentioned. Nothing is actually disappearing or is created. So the idea, Segovia is giving us, is not as bad, as the first expression probably is.

[nickspoon]

So you're saying that there is a large but constant number of souls? What happens if the total number of souled beings exceeds the total number of souls? Do we just get people without souls?

[Jakkal]

So you're saying that there is a large but constant number of souls? What happens if the total number of souled beings exceeds the total number of souls? Do we just get people without souls?

it wont exceed the total number... the amount is far too high to make a shortage. Perhaps a sudden infant death syndrom is caused by a body without a soul... its not working for long... dunno

edit: other theory: the material "soul" is made via many diffrent materials (like mentioned). So if there is a shortage, the balance will change from Educt "Soul Material" to "soul". So there will be more "souls" produced... are there to many souls, the soul will be destroyed into their pieces (and can be rebuilt later). And it should be material what exists in extrem high amount, like C, O, H,...

[Segovia]

That's a good point that a soul could be made out of different materials, therefore be supported by the law of conservation of mass.

@nick, What I'm saying is that, Bocaj is treating a soul as a whole substance, what I'm saying is that a soul could be split or shared there for if a person has a soul, then that one soul could split into three souls when he/she dies.

[nickspoon]

But if a soul obeys conservation of energy, then a person whose soul is - if you will - 'whole' will have more soul than one whose soul is a product of the splitting of another one. In other words, as the population increases, people have less and less soul.

As for a soul being made of matter, that simply does not hold at all. If the soul were just some organic compound, how could it have any of the properties it is supposed to have? Trying to marry the concept of the soul and real physics in that manner is very much a dead end. (I am allowing, for the sake of argument, that the soul exists at all.)

[Segovia]

But what is a soul nick? Thoughts, memories, feelings, etc? All of them caused by chemicals in the brain. So if that's the "soul" that we are talking about then yes the law of conservation of mass does support it.

[nickspoon]

If you are to talk about the soul in that regard - as a natural, chemical phenomenon, brought about by neural activity - then immediately the prospect of reincarnation becomes absolutely absurd. When you die, that neural activity ceases, and it cannot just reappear in someone else. The conservation of energy and mass is held, yes, but not by anything so mystical as reincarnation, but simply by the dissipation of electrical and chemical energy in the brain and the decaying of the brain material.

I was talking about the soul as some sort of energy, simply because although it is a ridiculous concept it is more allowing of reincarnation. If we are going to talk about strictly what actually exists, then it is simply the case that reincarnation does not, and nor does the 'soul' beyond in a purely metaphorical sense.

[Jakkal]

but you still miss a point there nick.

you say, when there is a limited amount of souls, what happens, when there are not enough of them, and when they got splited (I didnt say that in this way, I just said, they will be reassabled) there will be less and less soul for everyone.

But we cant see a "soul" as a raw material, I mean, when there are so many ppl on this planet... It needs C, O, H, S, N, and other to produce a human beeing. We are only made of those particles, what happens, when there are not enough Carbon in exist, what happens then? So saying, that there will be a shortage, is quite risky. You just dunno if there is even the room for enough bodies to take every existing soul into account.

[Tom_Radigan]

There are nonreligious people who believe in ghosts and the spirit world. Inventor Thomas Alva Edison was one. Furry artist James M. Hardiman is another.

[nickspoon]

I suppose I didn't consider the limit on the number of physical beings in existence. If there is enough 'soul stuff' for the maximum number of beings, and this stuff is recycled, then it would be impossible for that to run out; it just means that we have a massive excess of it. I was merely wondering what might happen if the supply were depleted.

Tom_Radigan: Yes, but I hardly see how that relates. I personally do not believe in any of it, allow me to make that quite clear.

[Muninn]

We are limiting ourselves by thinking of only humans. I believe every living thing has a soul; every human, animal, plant. If it's alive it has something. I don't know what that soul is. Maybe it's different for every creature, maybe it's different for every individual being. I don't think we can know that. Though bringing a system to measure just isn't possible I think.