Bluedogs

[MuffinSticks]

Klimt rocks.

Doc Sigma more.

[likeafox]

[Foxchild]

"Many more" I'd say no, not 'many' more, though I have been in that predicament myself.

Foxchild you're cool and all but you're soooooo wrong here

please, then, spout off some numbers. the number of "o"s in "so" won't convince me alone

My argument stems from most full time employment offers some form of health coverage as part of a benefits package. Are they always the greatest thing in the world? no, but you can always move on to better jobs after hard work, ergo improving things such as your and your families health coverage. Even McDonalds offers health insurance if you work with them full time.

And I was without insurance for over a year, not terribly long ago. Even with full time hours, at the time I thought I needed to put more money into living expenses, and opted out of the health care option when the opportunity presented itself. Well, shit, life happened and something got F'ed with my chest. I had just switched jobs, but if I reported it before 6 months into the coverage, it would be a "pre-existing condition" and ergo not covered. So I waited, against better judgement, and it turned out to be something mostly benign. I lucked out, but it kicked my butt into making sure, at any reasonable cost, I could get some form of emergency coverage.

What was mentioned earlier, as well, is something that seems to be a pre-existing condition problem. Frankly, I think -THAT- should be tossed out, but -NOT- a government run health care system. That will only make things much worse in the United States health care 'arena'.

ZING!

[klimt]

i haven't been to a doctor in 4 years. last time was a standard checkup and to have some forms signed, had to book the appointment something like 2 weeks in advance.

[Segovia]

No matter how good the health insurance, it still doesn't cure anesthetic awareness.

( I know my spelling is ghastly.)

[Marc Jacobs]

please, then, spout off some numbers. the number of "o"s in "so" won't convince me alone

Census data estimates that there were 47 million uninsured in 2006 (http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www ... 10583.html), and that's to say nothing for those who are insured but getting screwed by things like preexisting condition policies, like you mentioned.

(and I fully expect jack to delete this post when he wakes up so I'm screenshotting it so I can type it again)

Ha ha ha ha, oh my!

[sad jazz cantaloupe]

if you save it in a note then you won't even have to retype it.

[Foxchild]

Census data estimates that there were 47 million uninsured in 2006 (http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www ... 10583.html), and that's to say nothing for those who are insured but getting screwed by things like preexisting condition policies, like you mentioned.

(and I fully expect jack to delete this post when he wakes up so I'm screenshotting it so I can type it again)

So, roughly 11% is the 2006 estimate, including all children without insurance.

Interestingly enough, in that same year, nearly 5% of all citizens 16+ not in an educational institution were unemployed, which will lead to being uninsured in most cases. Realistically, assume the percentage carries over and that 5% of 16+ are uninsured BUT in an educational institution (as in high school and college, generally the student is filed under their parents health care), as their parents are both unemployed. Aside from the 16+, assume every third adult out of an educational institution has the average 2.5 kids. You'll start to get pretty close to that uninsured number.

The remainder? Those who were employed and opted out of insurance (such as I did as waitstaff), or currently employed in a manner in which it isn't offered (either not working full time, self employed, or for a company small enough to not offer it [under 15 emps])

(in fact, there was a higher percentage of uninsured children than standard populus, 10.8% to 11.7%, meaning 2.15 kids for every 2 adults)

ref:
ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/special.requests/ ... psaat1.pdf

is it right to have kids uninsured? ... I'll say I'm not fond of the idea. But forcing the total elimination of all current health insurance to replace it with a government run one is bad on so many fronts. Otherwise, you can find cheaper 'emergency only' health plans. Ain't great, but if you get randomly hospitalized, better than nothing.

[Dr. Dos]

Anybody who thinks there is any reason for somebody not to be able to have access to healthcare is a horrible monster.

[Rooster]

Nice to know that as far off into time as I travel, only two things remain pure constants...K9's chirpiness and Rainedog's suckiness.

Dirty Poo.

[IceDragon]

DCS has no right calling anyone a tool, when she herself is just a hack

[Blizzard]

First thing that popped into my head was this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwE6A1915zY

[Caoimhin]

Anybody who thinks there is any reason for somebody not to be able to have access to healthcare is a horrible monster.

I'm Caoimhin Llewelyn and I approve this message.

Please, someone read this post through, I'll be rather upset if someone doesn't think I'm worth it and puts "tl;dr". Although the fact I was watching The Oblongs as I was typing this made my post even more disgruntled at some of the opinions expressed before me. Right now Foxchild's in particular irks me.

With that out of the way, I'd like to say that unless both my parents were working I would have no health insurance. My dad worked for Linens n' Things and had a good job that he enjoyed, he was essentially an energy analysist, output/input and specifically saving the company money by moving towards a greener company. Some jackass bought the company and invested in casinos as far as I know, you may have seen this jackass on the front page of The New York Times... In 2009 because of said investments, and believe me this guy MUST have been a hard worker because he was able to pay for insurance right FC, only hard workers like him get anywhere? WELL you must be right they filed for bankruptcy and went under and my dad was then out of work and my family had no friggin insurance. This wasn't the first time my dad was layed off, before he was framed because the people in charge of engineering were looking bad because he knew more than them, whats more he didn't finish college for engineering. HE DOESN'T have a college degree. He learned all this through experience, jobs before this to. The main reason he didn't finish college was because it was too expensive for him to pay, he had to be in the workforce full-time in order to get the health benefits. So, luckily after the whole L n'Things fiasco he found a new job... After 3 months of being uninsured, this was short before L n' Things he was out of a job for 6 months. He must not have been a hard worker. Well we had to go through hell to get an insurance policy which for lack of another word sucked. My mom couldn't and still can't get a new pair of glasses, because my dad had already gotten a pair. So she wears broken glasses, with tape, and if the lens falls out she'll have to go without it for a while. Did I mention that the great job my dad found is contract only? He works for PSE&G same line of work as before, except this time he is pioneering a new department, as they havn't really had an alternate energies department before. So things are looking good... Except of course that a contract position, despite paying more, does not provide insurance. So now my mom works for SCARP(Sussex County Association for Retarded People), being paid less than she did subbing but working as long as my dad. But it provides insurance. The whole problem with this concept of "if you work hard, you wouldn't be in a non-insurance position" is complete bullshit. Granted hardwork more often than not will get you to a better station and life, but this whole idea "well, at least you have it," is complete passiveness when confronting the problem. Theres no sense of striving for better. Unfortunately while writing this I forgot who exactly said this, but it really could always get better. I'm a firm advocate of public healthcare, but I just have to accept that until people are more keen on the idea the current bill is a good step forward. But whenever possible I'll support government provided healthcare. There are probably going to be countless examples of people having relatives in other countries saying that healthcare sucks, but through a friend of the family who is English and watching Sicko (yes a Michael Moore film, but it has less political bashing to make some people more confortable), I'm convinced that nothings wrong with it. Infact doctors in France recieve bonuses for having a good history of service. They get paid more for doing a good job and dealing with patients in a good manner. So there IS variation, other than private practice and rates determining what kind of care you get, its the fact that you are another human being that determines the treatment given. Just because you aren't rich does not mean you deserve any less than Bill Gates or Donald Trump. Its not about taking good healthcare away from the rich, ITS PROVIDING EVERYBODY WITH THE SAME GOOD HEALTHCARE AS THE WEALTHY.

[sad jazz cantaloupe]

I have to hand it to you Caoimhin, you have an uncanny ability to produce large blobs of gobbledy-gook. This time, you get bonus points because it was actually entirely relevant to the conversation.

(although I'm sorry to say that it's too late for me to read it all right now... I'll get to it tomorrow)

[Cactus Jack]

Anybody who thinks there is any reason for somebody not to be able to have access to healthcare is a horrible monster.

I'm Caoimhin Llewelyn and I approve this message.

Please, someone read this post through, I'll be rather upset if someone doesn't think I'm worth it and puts "tl;dr". Although the fact I was watching The Oblongs as I was typing this made my post even more disgruntled at some of the opinions expressed before me. Right now Foxchild's in particular irks me.

With that out of the way, I'd like to say that unless both my parents were working I would have no health insurance. My dad worked for Linens n' Things and had a good job that he enjoyed, he was essentially an energy analysist, output/input and specifically saving the company money by moving towards a greener company. Some jackass bought the company and invested in casinos as far as I know, you may have seen this jackass on the front page of The New York Times... In 2009 because of said investments, and believe me this guy MUST have been a hard worker because he was able to pay for insurance right FC, only hard workers like him get anywhere? WELL you must be right they filed for bankruptcy and went under and my dad was then out of work and my family had no friggin insurance. This wasn't the first time my dad was layed off, before he was framed because the people in charge of engineering were looking bad because he knew more than them, whats more he didn't finish college for engineering. HE DOESN'T have a college degree. He learned all this through experience, jobs before this to. The main reason he didn't finish college was because it was too expensive for him to pay, he had to be in the workforce full-time in order to get the health benefits. So, luckily after the whole L n'Things fiasco he found a new job... After 3 months of being uninsured, this was short before L n' Things he was out of a job for 6 months. He must not have been a hard worker. Well we had to go through hell to get an insurance policy which for lack of another word sucked. My mom couldn't and still can't get a new pair of glasses, because my dad had already gotten a pair. So she wears broken glasses, with tape, and if the lens falls out she'll have to go without it for a while. Did I mention that the great job my dad found is contract only? He works for PSE&G same line of work as before, except this time he is pioneering a new department, as they havn't really had an alternate energies department before. So things are looking good... Except of course that a contract position, despite paying more, does not provide insurance. So now my mom works for SCARP(Sussex County Association for Retarded People), being paid less than she did subbing but working as long as my dad. But it provides insurance. The whole problem with this concept of "if you work hard, you wouldn't be in a non-insurance position" is complete bullshit. Granted hardwork more often than not will get you to a better station and life, but this whole idea "well, at least you have it," is complete passiveness when confronting the problem. Theres no sense of striving for better. Unfortunately while writing this I forgot who exactly said this, but it really could always get better. I'm a firm advocate of public healthcare, but I just have to accept that until people are more keen on the idea the current bill is a good step forward. But whenever possible I'll support government provided healthcare. There are probably going to be countless examples of people having relatives in other countries saying that healthcare sucks, but through a friend of the family who is English and watching Sicko (yes a Michael Moore film, but it has less political bashing to make some people more confortable), I'm convinced that nothings wrong with it. Infact doctors in France recieve bonuses for having a good history of service. They get paid more for doing a good job and dealing with patients in a good manner. So there IS variation, other than private practice and rates determining what kind of care you get, its the fact that you are another human being that determines the treatment given. Just because you aren't rich does not mean you deserve any less than Bill Gates or Donald Trump. Its not about taking good healthcare away from the rich, ITS PROVIDING EVERYBODY WITH THE SAME GOOD HEALTHCARE AS THE WEALTHY.

They invented this thing called paragraphs. Try adding a few and maybe I will read that.