O&M TV SHOW Or Video Game

Gizensha · Postby **Gizensha** » Sat Dec 24, 2005 2:34 pm

Jack - I suggested Dvorak as an engine is because it's truely open ended. It's possable to build a Dvorak game without battle systems, or without victory conditions (weather that's a good idea or not is beside the point, it's perfectly possable to build a Dvorak game without a win or a lose condition). The basic rules of Dvorak are so simple. My thought for Jerremy's card would be "When this card is played, if any player has Ozy in play, take one card from that player. Reguardless, no Zen victory methods may be used while Jerremy is in play." (hm. Maybe not all characters should have victory conditions attatched to them, maybe some should block some types of victory conditions instead...?) What Dvorak gives is a basic play method (draw a card, do stuff, discard hand down to x cards) rather than any guidelines onto specific rules and victory conditions. In fact, a summary to the Dvorak game, in 99 words...  <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'>Quote: ("Dvorak rules page")</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> Shuffle the cards into a draw pile. Draw five cards each. Choose who takes the first turn. Each turn, draw a card from the top of the draw pile, then play a Thing and/or an Action. (Things go onto the table in front of the person who played them, Actions go face-up onto the discard pile.) If you've got more than five cards in your hand at the end of your turn, discard down to five. Then it's the next Player's turn. When the draw pile's empty, shuffle the discard pile to make a new one. And that's it.</td></tr></table>

norsenerd · Postby **norsenerd** » Sat Dec 24, 2005 10:43 pm

We may want even more open ended then that. Irreguardless of what we do we need to have the mechanics of the game figure out. The simulation of the game shoudl come after that.

Gizensha · Postby **Gizensha** » Sat Dec 24, 2005 11:39 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'>Quote: (norsenerd @ Dec 24 2005, 10:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> We may want even more open ended then that. Irreguardless of what we do we need to have the mechanics of the game figure out. The simulation of the game shoudl come after that.  </td></tr></table>  You know, part of the beauty of Dvorak is that the game is made up as it's played, according to the needs of the game during the game, and that custom rules can be added which change, modify or otherwise disreguard the raw rules. In any card game, for example, cards take precidence over rules. Dvorak has an additional layer to this, game specific rules take precidence over generic rules. I would suggest the basic mechanics of Dvorak are right for O&M, since they can easially be combat free (and victory-condition-less), but often have some sort of goal within the game. If we have multiple victory conditions on various characters, all of which interact with each other in some sort of bizare network (maybe even going so far as to balance it between games so that if every character card is in play in the right combination of players, all victories are impossable), though I'm not sure if all characters should have victory conditions attatched to them, or if some should simply effect the game, or if some should purely block victory conditions from being used, and how many victory conditions should be available to each character with victory conditions... But that's a balance issue and I would suppose would probably come into light during gameplay. (Thing - Poker Butt. If Ozy is in play anywhere in the game, attatch this card to him. While this card is in play, the person in control of this card must play with their hand exposed.) [I would suggest that all things, assuming we go with Dvorak, are characters, places, attributes of characters (ala poker butt), or items (Top hat, dragon horns, Rubber Ducky Ernest, etc), and everything else is an action.]

norsenerd · Postby **norsenerd** » Sun Dec 25, 2005 12:09 am

One of the issues I see with Dvorak is that it may put limitations on the mechanics of the game. I would like to see cads that can be played form any hand once someone else plays an action to modify such an action. I have seen this work in other games and would achieve a dynamic that I would like to see in an O&M card game. I'm not sure if Dvorak can manage this. If it can then that's great but I would like to have an idea of what the game would be like before I will go into a simulation of it. Make sure that all the dynamics are straight before we limit ourselves in what we can do. They might be others that will pop up. I think a discussion about what we would like the game to be is in order before we chose a way to simulate it with a particular program. Anyways this seams like a game that should be made from scratch even if Dvorak is used. We need to know what some card will be and what they will do even before we start with this. Before we just start Dvorak up, this should be known. Otherwise what will the cards that are fed into Dvorak for us to play with be? No matter what we do it is obvious to me that once we start testing the game that it will undergo major revisions. It will be just about imposable to have a game set up and have it work flawlessly even before the first play test. I think a major reworking of the game will happen format he first play test to the last. If Dvorak can do everything that we would want in the game then I see no reason other then possible legal reasons to use it. We are not at the point where we can and should just jump in and use it right off the bat.

Gizensha · Postby **Gizensha** » Sun Dec 25, 2005 12:21 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'>Quote: (norsenerd @ Dec 25 2005, 12:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> One of the issues I see with Dvorak is that it may put limitations on the mechanics of the game. I would like to see cads that can be played form any hand once someone else plays an action to modify such an action. I have seen this work in other games and would achieve a dynamic that I would like to see in an O&M card game. I'm not sure if Dvorak can manage this. If it can then that's great but I would like to have an idea of what the game would be like before I will go into a simulation of it. Make sure that all the dynamics are straight before we limit ourselves in what we can do. They might be others that will pop up. I think a discussion about what we would like the game to be is in order before we chose a way to simulate it with a particular program. Anyways this seams like a game that should be made from scratch even if Dvorak is used. We need to know what some card will be and what they will do even before we start with this. Before we just start Dvorak up, this should be known. Otherwise what will the cards that are fed into Dvorak for us to play with be? No matter what we do it is obvious to me that once we start testing the game that it will undergo major revisions. It will be just about imposable to have a game set up and have it work flawlessly even before the first play test. I think a major reworking of the game will happen format he first play test to the last. If Dvorak can do everything that we would want in the game then I see no reason other then possible legal reasons to use it. We are not at the point where we can and should just jump in and use it right off the bat.  </td></tr></table>  Sure it can manage this. You simply put it as part of the text on the card. To my eyes, however, chaining is very often an unneccessary complication. It works in Yu-Gi-Oh, but... I'm not convinced it's entirely appropriate for an O&M game, due to the laid back nature of the comic strip. And Dvorak isn't a program. Dvorak is a nomic card game. A simple basic premise, which is infinitely modifiable. Also, Dvorak has card generation as part of the full game mechanics. And there are no possable legal restrictions. Dvorak is a thing that's designed to facilitate the creation of card games. Due to the infinitely customisable nature of Dvorak, I see no reason not to try using it.

EeveeYasha · Postby **EeveeYasha** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 11:54 am

Going back to the video game thingy, there was a game called "Annoy your neighbours" or something like that, which I played a while ago. You basicly sneaked into your neighbours house and set up loads of pranks, and broke stuff. I could so see Millie doing that. P.S: Sorry if this is a bit of a bump. P.S.S: Sorry if I seem a bit clueless, I've skim read most of this thread.

Steve the Pocket · Postby **Steve the Pocket** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:33 am

This discussion reminds me of two things: (1) I still never got around to doing that dynamic storyboard for IAmAWaffle's O&M "Minority" opening sequence; (2) I never got any farther with my computer game idea than I had been over a year ago when I first posted the idea. Except to mention it to DCS on his LiveJournal and get an impressed-sounding comment and the recommendation to have Ben Yackley do the music. Oh, and speaking of music, Blue Blur you should look into asking Arloest to do the music for your game. I don't have the links right now, but she's been making these kick-tail MIDIs that sound like solid VG material. <img src='http://definecynical.mancubus.net/forum ... /smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

Blue Blur · Postby **Blue Blur** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:47 am

Seriously? That's awesome! Heck, be one less thing that I would have to learn to do. <img src='http://definecynical.mancubus.net/forum ... tongue.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tongue.gif' /> Too bad she doesn't have a working mic. We still need somebody who can voice Millie and hopefully Ms. Mudd. Once Stiletto (my other developer) is back from break, I'll have him post what he has done on the code and see if there's any way to speed up the process. We just don't have a lot of free time.

Dr. Doog · Postby **Dr. Doog** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:31 am

she has some posted at c8world.com if you're unlike me and feel like finding them even though I'm the one who's a member

Gizensha · Postby **Gizensha** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:34 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'>Quote: (Octan @ Jan 5 2006, 12:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> (2) I never got any farther with my computer game idea than I had been over a year ago when I first posted the idea. Except to mention it to DCS on his LiveJournal and get an impressed-sounding comment and the recommendation to have Ben Yackley do the music.  </td></tr></table>  Can I ask what the idea was?

Blue Blur · Postby **Blue Blur** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:37 am

Well, I just ran into a problem... How does DCS feel over having his characters in a game? Just wondering...

TyVulpine · Postby **TyVulpine** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:18 pm

TV show. It'd last longer, and be more fun....

Joe3210 · Postby **Joe3210** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:08 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'>Quote: (Tailsthefox @ Jan 5 2006, 10:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> TV show. It'd last longer, and be more fun....  </td></tr></table>  This would be a good idea. Hopefully it would be a better series than that Garfield.

IceDragon · Postby **IceDragon** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 2:58 am

I liked Garfield and Friends. Better than the comic strip.

Blue Blur · Postby **Blue Blur** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:26 am

Garfield & Freinds was a pretty good kids' show. I used to like it.

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