Define Cynical Fan Forums

"Turkey has deployed up to 100,000 soldiers, backed by tanks, fighter jets and helicopters, along the border."

I was once told, by a history teacher, who pointed out that the Russians were technically at war with Germany months before a shot was fired between the two (during the Great War) that declaring war isn't a problem for anyone. They're just words. So what? No, it's when you mobilise that things begin to get serious.

If you didn't hear about it outside of Europe, then I think you should know about this. Turkey, which has the second largest army in NATO, lost 20 troops recently (12 killed and 8 missing) in the south-eastern corner of Turkey which has a large Kurdish population. The main suspects are the PKK, a group designated terrorists by the US and Turkey (among others). The PKK would ideally like to see a Kurdish state, as the Kurds (roughly 13m of them) are the largest ethnic group without a state. Tensions between the PKK and Turkey have been straining since the 1970s.

The real issue is that, as you may or may not know, Turkey borders Iraq on the south-eastern border. The North-West of Iraq is under Kurdish control, and as yet is the only area to experience real stability. Since Turkey have lined forces up on the border between themselves and Kurdish Iraq, it seems that Turkey are intending to move further into Iraq and root out the PKK, who the Turks believe are being sheltered by the Kurdish rulers.

Problems arise when you try to work out whose side anyone is on, and also when you look at parallels in the region. Since Turkey is a member of NATO, it is protected by Article 5, which states that any attack against a member state is an attack against all member states. That's why we're all in Afghanistan. But Iraq is run by (okay I may be paraphrasing, but you could also call it "strongly backed by") the US. And the US and Turkey are meant to be on the same side. So what if Turkey invades an area under US-backed rule?

And if Turkey *does* move in to 'weed out terrorists', Bush will have a carte blanche to move into Iran, since he accuses them of pretty much the same thing as the Turks are of the Kurds.

I'm worried by all this that's going on in the Middle East. It's not like the region needs any more trouble.

I heard that the Bush administration was actually aiding the PKK in Iran in order to provoke some response, But this only added to the tension between Turkey and the US, but more recently, I read that Bush is now offering to bomb suspected PKK holdouts in order to keep up appearances with the Turkish government, does anybody know if this is true? Or what this change of heart could represent (aside from the utter two-facedness of the current administration)?

Cool, real news.

I'm all for Turkey here. They are the only secular Islamic country and damn it they're going to stay that way.

They are the only secular Islamic country and damn it they're going to stay that way

Actually, due to the previous governments support of the Bush administration, the recent elections put the AKP into power, who, while pretty damn liberal, is a specically Islamic party. So while Turkey is not yet on a slippery slope, they can at least see it.

What the hell is it with these ethnic groups wanting their own state? Just imagine if people had that kind of attitude over here. "Now leaving Caucasia, Welcome to Blackistan!"

What the hell is it with these ethnic groups wanting their own state? Just imagine if people had that kind of attitude over here. "Now leaving Caucasia, Welcome to Blackistan!"

... I have no idea how to respond to that.

Except to say that, while you were awfully blunt, you make an excellent point. Now class, can you tell me why Octan is correct in his thinking?

"Blackistan" sounds like a Spike Lee joint.

I'm pretty sure Europe and North America north of the Rio Grande are Caucasia.

"Now leaving Caucasia, Welcome to Blackistan!"

I know that this is a serious discussion, but that made me crack up laughing. Does that mean I'm racist? I hope not...

What the hell is it with these ethnic groups wanting their own state? Just imagine if people had that kind of attitude over here. "Now leaving Caucasia, Welcome to Blackistan!"

I was just thinking and I applied this line of thinking to the Israelis... and I was lmao. So there you go, you now have extra evidence to support your claim that this kind thing is a bad idea; also don't forget the Quebecois, the Basque, the thousands of squabbling ethnic groups in Africa, those guys in Indonesia, the Chechens and southern Thailand...

I'm not actually sure if I'm being sarcastic here, or not.

And btw Caucasia is a region around Turkey and Russia, and contains the nations of Georgia, Azerbaijan, Armenia,and parts of Turkey and Russia.

Hersh: US, Israel support PKK
Mon, 29 Oct 2007 02:38:48


Seymour Hersh
PKK Kurdish rebel group and its sister organization, PEJAK, have been receiving support from the US and Israel, an American journalist claims.

"In the past months, Israel and the United States have been working together in support of PKK and its Iranian offshoot PEJAK, I was told by a government consultant with close ties to the Pentagon," said Pulitzer Prize-winning, Seymour Hersh.

In an interview with Turkish gazette, Zaman, the leading American investigative journalist also revealed that the White House has lost control over PKK which has gone rogue.

Earlier, the renowned American journalist accused Washington and the Zionist regime of providing PKK and PEJAK with 'training and equipment' in a secret ploy to destabilize the region.

Commenting on PEJAK, Hersh asserted that Washington considers it as “part of an effort to explore alternative means of applying pressure on Iran.â€

Its the end of the world and I feel fine.