happy easter!

[norsenerd]

Oh coruse as we have discused erlier Wiica is the same thing as pegan. The one thing that talked about pegan beliefs is: <!--QuoteBegin--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> </td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> The name for this Sabbat actually comes from that of the Teutonic lunar Goddess, Eostre. Her chief symbols were the bunny (for fertility and because the Ancient Ones who worshipped her often saw the image of a rabbit in the full moon), and the egg (representing the cosmic egg of creation). This is where the customs of "Easter Eggs" and the "Easter Bunny" originated.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br><br>Before I co any further I would like to question the validity of this page. It seams to me to be a personal page and the aurthor has no credetnials posted and the close assosiation between wicca and peganism is to be questioned. Instead my primary sourse (<i>Myths of the Norsemen</i> by H.A. Guerber), which inculdes referances to the origen of such material, while not being perfect (it came about form the turn of the century. This means taht with the science of it's time it includes a lot that is now believed not to have ben beliefe but it should include things that are beliefs if they were in fact) I think is a much more reliable sourse. I have shown this to a profesor of Germaninc studies here and an expert on Norse culture and he told me that this was a good book as long as I keep in mind it's limitations.<br><br>Frey has been well established as the god of firtility in Norse myth adn his couterpart in Germanic myth (Fro) is also the god of firtility. This is also acording to all other repituable sourses on Norse myth that I have encountered (other books, profesors, documentries ect.). He did not have as a symbol a rabit but a golden-bristled boar (Gullin-bursti) that was a gift form the dwarfs of Svart-alfa-heim as his chief symbol.<br><br>Eastre was the goddes of spring and was closly associated with Frigga (or Frigg the german name) who was the primary wife of Odin (and thus queen of the aiser (the cheife race of norse gods)) and was the goddess of clouds. In other places in Germany she did have the name Ostara but she woudl also be the goddes of spring. She was beloved because she represented the rebirth of the earth after winter which was somethign to be clebrated. Frey was the one responsable for thier crops being firtile.<br><br>The Guote actuly never names Estre as the goddes of firtility but instead the lunar goddess. The corect lunar god was Mani who pulled the moon across the sky in his chariot. This leads me to question the validity of this site as a pegan guide some more.

[Msj]

Not a funny thread <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://definecynical.mancubus.net/forum ... s/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Henohenomoheji]

shut up and eat your chocolate.

[hdofu]

<!--QuoteBegin-norsenerd+Apr 14 2004, 11:35 PM--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> (norsenerd @ Apr 14 2004, 11:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> Oh coruse as we have discused erlier Wiica is the same thing as pegan. The one thing that talked about pegan beliefs is: <!--QuoteBegin--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> </td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> The name for this Sabbat actually comes from that of the Teutonic lunar Goddess, Eostre. Her chief symbols were the bunny (for fertility and because the Ancient Ones who worshipped her often saw the image of a rabbit in the full moon), and the egg (representing the cosmic egg of creation). This is where the customs of "Easter Eggs" and the "Easter Bunny" originated.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br><br>Before I co any further I would like to question the validity of this page. It seams to me to be a personal page and the aurthor has no credetnials posted and the close assosiation between wicca and peganism is to be questioned. Instead my primary sourse (<i>Myths of the Norsemen</i> by H.A. Guerber), which inculdes referances to the origen of such material, while not being perfect (it came about form the turn of the century. This means taht with the science of it's time it includes a lot that is now believed not to have ben beliefe but it should include things that are beliefs if they were in fact) I think is a much more reliable sourse. I have shown this to a profesor of Germaninc studies here and an expert on Norse culture and he told me that this was a good book as long as I keep in mind it's limitations.<br><br>Frey has been well established as the god of firtility in Norse myth adn his couterpart in Germanic myth (Fro) is also the god of firtility. This is also acording to all other repituable sourses on Norse myth that I have encountered (other books, profesors, documentries ect.). He did not have as a symbol a rabit but a golden-bristled boar (Gullin-bursti) that was a gift form the dwarfs of Svart-alfa-heim as his chief symbol.<br><br>Eastre was the goddes of spring and was closly associated with Frigga (or Frigg the german name) who was the primary wife of Odin (and thus queen of the aiser (the cheife race of norse gods)) and was the goddess of clouds. In other places in Germany she did have the name Ostara but she woudl also be the goddes of spring. She was beloved because she represented the rebirth of the earth after winter which was somethign to be clebrated. Frey was the one responsable for thier crops being firtile.<br><br>The Guote actuly never names Estre as the goddes of firtility but instead the lunar goddess. The corect lunar god was Mani who pulled the moon across the sky in his chariot. This leads me to question the validity of this site as a pegan guide some more. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br><a href='http://www.llewellyn.com/bookstore/blur ... pe=Excerpt' target='_blank'>Don't like that, this is from Llellywyn.com which I here is a rather reliable source</a><br><br><!--QuoteBegin--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> </td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> The Anglo-Saxons hailed Eostre as the Goddess of Spring, the Greening Earth, and Fertility. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br><br><a href='http://www.abcog.org/nh/easter.htm' target='_blank'>And I guess they're wrong too...</a><br><br>I really don't praticularly care about the finner details of who worships who when. But I do not appreciate being addressed as uf I'm full of it. Sorry, that just how I am, and I will defend what I say.

[Henohenomoheji]

Shut up and eat your chocolate!

[norsenerd]

Once again your sourse deals with Wicca. Pegganism is very diferent then Wicca. There are several things that are vastlydiferent. For example the pentagram that was seen all the time was used in the western anchient world by a group of Greek philosohers that used it as a symbol for thier beliefs. The mainstream Greek socieoty saw this as a cult yet it's all over the place in Wicca. Wicca is new and it is vastly diferent then Pegganism and while the try to base their beleifs on Peganism if their goal was to mimic ancient beliefs they have most definaty faild.<br><br>The second link doese not claim anyhting about who the proper diety of Fertility is.<br><br><a href='http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/poe/' target='_blank'>From the Poetic Edda</a> <br><a href='http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/poe/poe07.htm' target='_blank'>the Skirnismol</a> talks much abour Freyr (another spelling of Frey). <!--QuoteBegin--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> </td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> {p. 108}<br><br>love-sickness. Skirnir was the name of Freyr's servant; Njorth bade him ask speech of Freyr. He said:<br><br>1. "Go now, Skirnir! | and seek to gain<br>Speech from my son;<br>And answer to win, | for whom the wise one<br>Is mightily moved."<br><br>Skirnir spake:<br>2. "Ill words do I now | await from thy son,<br>If I seek to get speech with him,<br>And answer to win, | for whom the wise one<br>Is mightily moved."<br><br>[Prose. Freyr: concerning his father, Njorth, and the race of the Wanes in general, cf. Voluspo, 21 and note. Snorri thus describes Njorth's family: "Njorth begat two children in Noatun; the son was named Freyr, and the daughter Freyja; they were fair of aspect and mighty. <b>Freyr is the noblest of the gods; he rules over rain and sunshine, and therewith the fruitfulness of the earth; it is well to call upon him for plenty and welfare, for he rules over wealth for mankind</b>. Freyja is the noblest of the goddesses. When she rides to the fight, she has one-half of the slain, and Othin has half. When she goes on a journey, she drives her two cats, and sits in a cart. Love-songs please her well, and it is good to call on her in love-matters." Hlithskjolf: Othin's watch-tower; cf. Grimnismol, introductory prose. He said: both manuscripts have "Then Skathi said:" (Skathi was Njorth's wife), but Bugge's emendation, based on Snorri's version, is doubtless correct.<br><br>1. My son: both manuscripts, and many editors, have "our son," which, of course, goes with the introduction of Skathi in the prose. As the stanza is clearly addressed to Skirnir, the change of pronouns seems justified. The same confusion occurs in stanza 2, where Skirnir in the manuscripts is made to speak of Freyr as {footnote p. 108}"your son" (plural). The plural pronoun in the original involves a metrical error, which is corrected by the emendation.]<br><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br><br>It is not much but the best I can do right now. I do nto know the eddas as well as I should.<br><br><a href='http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~cherryne/m ... /Frey.html' target='_blank'>From Caltech</a><br><br>I defenatly know for a fact that Frey is the god of firtility. I made two points here: the rabit was nto a symbol of Frey the god of fitrility, and that the Easter compiles a minor part of pegan beliefe. The saxons used it as an exucse to hold festavles but any belief beyond that is not important. I stand by those statments. It is a shame that you do not care about who worshiped who, where, and how because this is at the heart of what I am trying to say. I don't think you're full of it but you made an incorect statment (and a rather grevous one at that) and I corrected it. Wiccans might consider Estre or Ostara (both the same person just diferent names for difert parts of Germany) the goddes of firtility but she was never the pegan goddes of firtility. The rabit may very well be her symbol and eggs were used during peggan celbrations in her name to celebrate the rebirth of the world but once again that's nto firtility and that is a minor part of their beliefs.

[hdofu]

I just wish to drop this arguement, I can accept being wrong if I'm wrong, So if I'm wrong about the beiliefs, so be it, I'm not plannning on practicing them, if a need ever arises where I acctually need to know them, then I'll deal with figuring it out then, however in the mean time, I am to busy to study beliefs of everyone, so I go by what I learned in grade school.<br><br>It wasn't even your arguement that set me off, I'm going to be honest, the opening comment by doog did offend me more then a little bit.<br><br><!--QuoteBegin--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> </td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> happy dead jesus angel thingy day!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br><br>I don't know if this is funny to others, but it just comes across as mean and hateful to me.

[Tavis]

<!--emo&:o--><img src='http://definecynical.mancubus.net/forum ... s/ohmy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ohmy.gif' /><!--endemo--> Heavens! You two need to back off. Any time a discussion about religion turns into an "I'm right, you're wrong" shouting match, that's a sure sign there is ignorance on both ends. As far as whether something is "correct" in a wiccan or otherwise pagan context is irrelevant. What IS important is that at least someone believes either. I think the points both of you are trying to make are the historical contexts provided by other belief systems that have ultimately wound their way into Easter traditions. You've made it.<br><br>There are many possible reasons why such symbolism as eggs, rabbits, jellybeans, pastel colors, and baskets filled with cellophane or paper grass are accepted around Easter, and while not everyone follows the same rationale, the results are still the same. Speculation on which <i>ONE</i> belief led to this result is ultimately flawed because it was the incorporation of <i>many</i> beliefs that leads us to where we are now. <!--emo&-_---><img src='http://definecynical.mancubus.net/forum ... /sleep.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sleep.gif' /><!--endemo--> I think I've said my peace here.

[Henohenomoheji]

okay, gimme back my cookie.

[Dr. Dos]

...ok then. *eats*

[Doctor Fred]

Happy Easter, Everyone!

[Tavis]

Cookie? Oh. um.. here. I hope ya like the kind with little M&Ms in them.

[Dr. Doog]

yeah guys, don't argue with your crazy facts. facts can be used to prove anything thats even REMOTELY true!

[norsenerd]

I apologize hdofu if I have ofended you. I take pegan beliefs rather serously. When I do prey it is to the norse gods and if I see somethign wrong I will point it out. I don't have anythign against you here.

[hdofu]

<!--QuoteBegin-norsenerd+Apr 15 2004, 07:42 AM--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> (norsenerd @ Apr 15 2004, 07:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> I apologize hdofu if I have ofended you. I take pegan beliefs rather serously. When I do prey it is to the norse gods and if I see somethign wrong I will point it out. I don't have anything against you here. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br> And I take christian ones rather seriously, I'll say it again, it wasn't you who upset me, you just got the brunt of my emotions toward the initial comment, and I needed to vent them in some way besides flamming, so I chose to argue over this trivial point on teaching, I apologise for that.