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Talk about recent Raine Dog comics.
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Foxchild
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Postby Foxchild » Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:44 pm

*(EDIT: in 2008, if you had a salary of $357,700.00, you would only net $128,713.25 before state and local taxes, meaning a federal tax rate of %64
I dunno what planet you're living on because the that's way impossible considering the top tax bracket is only 35 percent
35% PLUS $103,791.75

http://taxes.about.com/od/2008taxes/qt/ ... _rates.htm

When you start making millions of dollars, the $103,791.75 becomes meaningless. If you've just crossed into that bracket? it hits hard, unless I am misreading that entirely. Since I've not made that kind of money, perhaps I am, but reading it as it's written...

But as I recall, I payed nearly %40 when I crossed into the 31,850 range in '07 with the "PLUS" over 4G


.... I suppose the lesson here is know where the tax delineations are, and then blow past them instead of just cross them x_x
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nickspoon
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Postby nickspoon » Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:36 pm

unless I am misreading that entirely.
Which you are. Allow me to explain.

"35% on the income over $357,700; plus $103,791.75"

means that any income you generate in excess of $357,000 is taxed at a rate of 35%. On top of that is a flat $103,791.75, which is tax on the rest of your income. In other words, there is very little difference in tax between someone who earns $357,699 and someone who earns $357,700.

http://www.kiplinger.com/basics/archive ... rates.html explains it much more clearly.
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Postby Dr. Dos » Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:48 pm

unless I am misreading that entirely
You are! Your understanding of how the tax system works is incorrect, but you are far from the only person who has made this mistake.

Unfortunately this mistake is a big one and it is important to understand this. Don't fret, Dr. Dos is on the case.

---------

The way tax rates work are through brackets. For the sake of example we're going to use some nice tiny numbers to make this easier.

Well do this by using the actual tax brackets of the (fictional) country of Fictiononia.

So here are the Fictionian brackets (in brackets) and the percentage of tax on that income.

[$1-$100] - 10%
[$101-200] - 20%
[$201-300] - 30%
[$301-400] - 40%
[$401-500] - 50%
[$500+] - 75%

Much like the United States, the higher the bracket the higher the tax rate. This is what is known as a progressive tax.

The opposite of this would be a regressive tax where the higher the bracket the lower the tax rate. This is a bad thing and while I could wiki to find out where such a tax is used I won't.

Now we are going to observe the incomes of some citizens of Fictiononia.

Lucky Ducky - $50
Joe Sixpack - $210
John Galt - $650

----------

Lucky Ducky struggles to make ends meet. He works for minimum wage at a department store which is constantly working to keep him working under 40 hours to avoid paying things like health benefits.

Many people are angry with Lucky Ducky for getting things like Food Stamps. Their tax dollars are going to help this shmuck who they believe would be doing much better in life if he had tried a little harder.

Regardless as stated Lucky Ducky has earned $50 this year. This puts him in the lowest tax bracket of 10%.

Code: Select all

Lucky Ducky's Income Tax Formula $50 * .10 = $5
So Lucky Ducky will pay $5 in taxes leaving him with 90% of his income which comes out to $45.

----------

Joe Sixpack is your average Fictionian citizen. He finished high school, is married to the lovely Jane Sixpack, and has a son Futuretaxpayer. Joe works as a mechanic. He is skilled in his trade, and business has improved in the small town of Averageville to the point where he's gotten a small raise amounting to $10 more this year than last.

He has earned $210 this year.

Now, Joe is upset about all this, he voted for Oldman in the past election who promised tax cuts. Unfortunately for him President Fleetfoot won that election.

By making $210 instead of last year's $200, Joe is pretty upset!

Code: Select all

Joe thinks this is his income tax formula: $210 * .30 = $63
Joe doesn't want to pay $63 when he got a raise, why with those tax rates he'd be better off making $200 a year instead!

Code: Select all

Pre-raise Joe would think this is his income tax formula: $200 * .20 = $40
So his $10 raise is costing him $23 in taxes, he'll have less money than if he hadn't accepted the raise!

BUT JOE HAS MADE A FATAL ERROR
Like many Fictionians he misunderstands the tax bracket system.

The tax bracket is not something you fall under. Earning $210 doesn't mean you pay 30% on all $210.

Joe falls under more than one bracket! In fact he falls under three!

[$1-$100] - 10%
[$101-200] - 20%
[$201-300] - 30%

Joe will pay 10% on the first $100 he earns, 20% on the next, and 30% on the last.

Code: Select all

Joe's CORRECT tax formula ($100 * .10) + ($100 * .20) + ($10 * .30) = $33 First $100 Second $100 Last $10
Joe's actual taxes are nearly half of what he and many others would have suspected them to be. The income tax is is more of a spillover, if somebody earns more than the first bracket can hold, they pay the excess moves into the next bracket and only that excess is taxed at a higher rate.

For comparison here are Joe's actual taxes pre-raise and post-raise which includes a new bracket crossover.

Code: Select all

Pre-raise ($100 * .10) + ($100 * .20) = $30 Post-raise ($100 * .10) + ($100 * .20) + ($10 * .30) = $33
So Joe has gotten a $10 raise, and only $3 is lost to taxes.

The net result is Joe will pay $33 in taxes leaving him with 84% of his income which comes out to $177.

So hopefully now you have a better understanding of how taxes work. Because the higher rate is only on money earned in that bracket it is IMPOSSIBLE for getting a raise to result in you taking a net loss after taxes. Unless of course, you have a tax rate of over 100%.

But then there's still Mr. Galt.
----------
John Galt is one of the wealthiest citizens in Fictiononia. His meat processing plant, Rupture Farms, has earned him $650 this year.

Blah blah

Code: Select all

John Galt's Income Tax ($100 * .10) + ($100 * .20) + ($100 * .30) + ($100 *.40) + ($100 * .50) + ($150 * .75) = $262.50
Yikes! Galt is paying more money in taxes than Joe Sixpack and Lucky Ducky combined have earned.

Why, he only gets 60% of his income leaving him with... $397.5 more than double what Joe Sixpack has.

So, while it is true that Galt is paying more than anybody else, and keeps the smallest fraction of his money compared to the others, he still has double what they do.

And this is why he should pay more in the higher brackets. Because if the other people are doing fine with that, surely he can do fine with double.

This is also why things like "Fairtax" are anything but. The net result would place the burden on the poor which is not how taxes should work. Those who can pay more without struggling to get by are the ones who should pay more.

Edit: Yeah thanks nick for making my post in one sentence.
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Bocaj Claw
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Postby Bocaj Claw » Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:54 pm

I platonically love you Dos.
That which does not kill me, cripples me for life.

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sad jazz cantaloupe
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Postby sad jazz cantaloupe » Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:06 pm

As much as I like this conversation, could it please be split and moved to serious discussion? else I can keep on providing comic relief for Fritz.





Also :idea: Dos
Last edited by sad jazz cantaloupe on Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Apologies to everyone. Except Fritz.
First of all, Fritz, do yourself a favor and research your own answers before you post.

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Gecko
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Postby Gecko » Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:08 pm

Dos, that was quite a post.
Anami and Anami are sitting around Anami says "GRR I AM ANGSTY LET'S EXPRESS ANGST" and so Anami says "ONE OF THE MODS ON DC IS A DICK I POSTED A PICTURE THAT WASN'T REALLY THAT INAPPROPRIATE AND THREE MODS SAW IT AND DID NOTHING THEN A FOURTH ONE SAW IT AND DELETED IT" and Anami says "OMG I HATE MODS >:("

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sad jazz cantaloupe
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Postby sad jazz cantaloupe » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:17 am

he wouldn't be if we started taxing rich people to supplement his taxes.

(I don't mean if we just started taxing rich people, I mean if we said "okay, every US citizen making under $XXX a year, FROM NOW ON, THE RICHEST PEOLPE IN AMERICA PAY ALL YOUR TAXES" lol that would be nice)
Apologies to everyone. Except Fritz.
First of all, Fritz, do yourself a favor and research your own answers before you post.

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Foxchild
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Postby Foxchild » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:57 am

So basically Foxchild overpaid his taxes by like 4 thousand dollars? lmao
1) F off on that smug comment or eat a rotten dill pickle in a phallic manner; "lmao"

2) I thank Dr. Dos for a complete explanation of this, and as such, this makes sense (which makes me want to check what the hell the state taxes are in this region for previous years)

I checked multiple sites, and nowhere was that explained so well. In fact, most didn't even touch the topic. I did have to verify it against a tax calculator I found (huzzah to the person who had the calculator also list that calculation out) but such is the case.

Regardless, I still don't like the idea of everyone being migrated to one government health care system in place of my insurance. And yes, while Obama says that you wouldn't be forced over to it, that is not how the Bill is worded.
If you've done things right, people won't be sure if you've done anything at all.

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sad jazz cantaloupe
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Postby sad jazz cantaloupe » Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:16 am

it doesn't even matter what I'm saying
1) F off on that smug comment
next time ask for gravity to reverse it might work better
Apologies to everyone. Except Fritz.
First of all, Fritz, do yourself a favor and research your own answers before you post.

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Foxchild
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Postby Foxchild » Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:52 am

What that link says is that while in some cases, what Obama says is true, but the requirements on such will drive many businesses to drop the health insurance part of their benefits package due to heavy restrictions enacted through this bill. As such, those employers will be forced to choose the government health care plan, or face harsh penalties.

For the insurance companies themselves, they will be regulated and forced into a mold so as to be almost identical to competitors, meaning health care plans will change very likely regardless of keeping my current insurer.

While there will be no laws specifically forcing companies to change, it does force current insurance companies to change what they offer to be more similar to each other, and thus any plan I have, IF my company decides to remain the same company given the new regulations.
If you've done things right, people won't be sure if you've done anything at all.

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Liz
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Postby Liz » Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:13 am

Everytime Rainedog updates, I always look forward to the reading material that spawns from it.
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cougartiger
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Postby cougartiger » Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:17 am

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My Deviant Art page, home of my epic biography of Captain Lucius Locke, The Pirate's Tale.
Now including artwork!

http://cougartiger.deviantart.com/

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Gecko
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Postby Gecko » Wed Aug 12, 2009 5:28 am

Everytime Rainedog updates, I always look forward to the reading material that spawns from it.
Anami and Anami are sitting around Anami says "GRR I AM ANGSTY LET'S EXPRESS ANGST" and so Anami says "ONE OF THE MODS ON DC IS A DICK I POSTED A PICTURE THAT WASN'T REALLY THAT INAPPROPRIATE AND THREE MODS SAW IT AND DID NOTHING THEN A FOURTH ONE SAW IT AND DELETED IT" and Anami says "OMG I HATE MODS >:("

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Muninn
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Postby Muninn » Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:13 am

This whole thing has convinced me we should return to the good old days of local witch doctors, wise women and traditional herb/potion practioneers.

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datherman
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Postby datherman » Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:28 am

Dos, that was actually decent reading, thanks for the explanation.
This whole thing has convinced me we should return to the good old days of local witch doctors, wise women and traditional herb/potion practioneers.
Agreed.
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