Prisoner abuse

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Burning Sheep Productions
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Postby Burning Sheep Productions » Wed May 12, 2004 8:51 am

I don't know a whole lot about this except that it's really embarissing and stuff for the millitary.
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Postby Henohenomoheji » Wed May 12, 2004 11:33 am

ditto. Iye really need to get out more...
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Postby Softpaw » Wed May 12, 2004 6:38 pm

Basically, the prison guards in US-controlled Iraq (UK and US guards) were severely abusing and torturing the POWs. They then took pictures of this abuse, sent the pictures to their friends via internet, and some news agencies found the pictures and broke the story.<br><br>I may write an article about this myself, haven't decided yet. Stay tuned <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://definecynical.mancubus.net/forum ... /smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->

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Postby Muninn » Wed May 12, 2004 6:54 pm

Something else people miss about this is how late it took both Bush and Blair <i>themselves</i> to apologise. Ok so it won't change much, but it's appaling their attitude of almost apathy.<br><br>There isn't much to comment here , sad to say i doubt this will have as a large an impact as one certain September event, to me this is worse. That was done by zealous fanatics, with intentions alreadt clear that they would kill. This is done by people who are supposedly be ment to keep the peace and restore the conditions from Saddam's regime.

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Postby Supersmoke » Thu May 13, 2004 1:15 am

I agree with a friend of mine on this topic.<br><br>The media is composed of EXTREME DIPS**TS. It's their fault that an American civilian got killed, Mortal Kombat style. They released footage of the torture of Iraqis before they even had a second thought about it. Did they think that it was a race to get on TV first? Did they think the Iraqi people wouldn't notice? Damn you CNN! DAMN YOU! The media needs a nice tall glass of "Shut The F**k Up. "

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Postby The_Sparrow_ » Thu May 13, 2004 1:56 am

The Media's just reporting what happens it's what they're ment to do. If the media don't tell the masses about things like the torture of the Iraqis then there is no gurintee (sp) that people the people who commited such acts will be brought to juctice. <br><br>The blame should lay on the person that gave to order to torture the Iraq prisoners.<br><br>
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Postby MidnightRealism » Thu May 13, 2004 3:27 am

<!--QuoteBegin-The_Sparrow_+May 12 2004, 09:56 PM--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> (The_Sparrow_ @ May 12 2004, 09:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> The blame should lay on the person that gave to order to torture the Iraq prisoners. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br> The way it's been reported, there was no order to torture them. The guards were just bored.<br><br>Oh, and also rednecks. Heaven forbid I forget that. <!--emo&<_<--><img src='http://definecynical.mancubus.net/forum ... ns/dry.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='dry.gif' /><!--endemo-->

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Postby Foxchild » Thu May 13, 2004 3:31 am

i've heard reports that go either way, that it was ordered by a board commander, or that it was the soldiers themselves that made the decision. Personally, i just don't know. Perhaps the news in Ireland will be a little less biased... actually, i am near possitive it will be a lot less biased.
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Postby The_Sparrow_ » Thu May 13, 2004 3:36 am

<!--QuoteBegin-MidnightRealism+May 13 2004, 04:27 PM--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> (MidnightRealism @ May 13 2004, 04:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> <!--QuoteBegin-The_Sparrow_+May 12 2004, 09:56 PM--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> (The_Sparrow_ @ May 12 2004, 09:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> The blame should lay on the person that gave to order to torture the Iraq prisoners. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br>The way it's been reported, there was no order to torture them. The guards were just bored.<br><br>Oh, and also rednecks. Heaven forbid I forget that. <!--emo&<_<--><img src='http://definecynical.mancubus.net/forum ... ns/dry.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='dry.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br> There guards then, but over here it's been reported that some have said they were following orders. Some other people have said the abuse was to well planned out to have just been thought up by some lowly guards.<br><br>Whoever it is needs to be held accountable.
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Postby Foxchild » Thu May 13, 2004 3:45 am

<!--QuoteBegin-The_Sparrow_+May 12 2004, 10:36 PM--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> (The_Sparrow_ @ May 12 2004, 10:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> Whoever it is needs to be held accountable. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br> agreed.
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Postby Softpaw » Thu May 13, 2004 6:42 am

I have a theory, but it's probably not appropriate to post here.

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Postby norsenerd » Thu May 13, 2004 3:30 pm

<!--QuoteBegin-Supersmoke+May 12 2004, 08:15 PM--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> (Supersmoke @ May 12 2004, 08:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> I agree with a friend of mine on this topic.<br><br>The media is composed of EXTREME DIPS**TS. It's their fault that an American civilian got killed, Mortal Kombat style. They released footage of the torture of Iraqis before they even had a second thought about it. Did they think that it was a race to get on TV first? Did they think the Iraqi people wouldn't notice? Damn you CNN! DAMN YOU! The media needs a nice tall glass of "Shut The F**k Up. " <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br> WHAT!?!?!<br><br>No. The media is there to serve a pourpose and that's to keep the public informed about what's going on. Anyways this would never be a secret forever and if our country never acknowledged what was goign on then retrabution would be a lot worse. It's good that they came out and they proba bly shoudl have come out a lot sooner then they did and by our government! This entire this is oen big mess up by our administration after another.<br><br>But we have a free media and we should. How much wouldn;t we know about if the gevernment can shut up the media abotu what we dont;p want to hear about. We live ina democracy and that realies on the public being informed. If the meadia isn't free then you wopudln't be able to post here porbasbly. We might not even have a priesident anymore ind instead a dictator, or at-least a one party system. Not from waht's happend reciently but the media has been a thorn in our governments side ever since befroe we were a tation. I can;t remember the name but there was a case in Colonial New York where a pressman printed true degrading facts abotu the governor of New York. The govenor wanted to silacne and punish this man but the courts held that if ti is true the govenment can't silance it. Hell we might not even be a nation if it wern;t for freedom of the press. Anywas there are rules abotu whatr the press can and cannot do and numorus cort casses abotu this as well as numorus examles of the press beign a check on our government at all levels. Don;t you dare say the media should "Shut The F**k Up." I like living inb this coutnry and I do because I know I'm safe from my government. MAybe you woudl have liked to live in Saddams Iraq.<br><br>The thing is that this has always heppned in war and by both sides. Tehre are rulls against this but those will probably never be faloowed completly. I don;t think the Iraqies treat our prisoners any better. It's the spoils of war. At least we're not raping the women and gettign them pregnant unless I missed soemthing.<br><br>That's besides the point though. We shoudl have learned our elssons abotu war. War shoudl be avoided at basicly all costs. Didn't we sing a pact with every other nation denouncing war? I think we have. But when it is necisary we can't let our primitive human nature get the best of us. What we did was un called for and there was no reason for it! I think those responsable shoudl be brought to justice but as we have seen there will be htose in Iraq and elswhere that won;t settle for anythign less then blood and I don;t wish that justice on anybody ever.<br><br>There are pletny of peopel lettign their primitive instincs get the better of themselves.
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Postby Ankaris » Thu May 13, 2004 3:37 pm

"When you stare into the Abyss, be mindful it does not stare into you..."<br><br>I guess these events were only to be expected, the guards are only human, what with the events leading up to war and those during and after. However, that does not give them ANY right to do what they did. They are supposed to be there, according to Bush, Blair et all to keep the peace and show the Iraqis the benefits of democracy. To do what's been reported very effectively counters that goal.<br><br>Just so I know, are any Iraqi militants captured counted as POWs, or just prisoners? Not that there's too much difference, but I know the Geneva Convention specifically bans torture / abuse of POWs in this fashion. <br><br>As for the 'only following orders' argument, that's no excuse, as history has shown. Those who actively did it, should be held accountable. Those who gave orders for it, should be held accountable. Those who knew and did not order an end to it should be held accountable.<br><br>Sorry if I came over too strong there. Just... <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://definecynical.mancubus.net/forum ... ns/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo--> <br><br>Oh yeah, why not appropriate Felix <!--emo&:huh:--><img src='http://definecynical.mancubus.net/forum ... ns/huh.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='huh.gif' /><!--endemo-->
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Postby norsenerd » Thu May 13, 2004 8:43 pm

<!--QuoteBegin-Ankaris+May 13 2004, 10:37 AM--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> (Ankaris @ May 13 2004, 10:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> Just so I know, are any Iraqi militants captured counted as POWs, or just prisoners? Not that there's too much difference, but I know the Geneva Convention specifically bans torture / abuse of POWs in this fashion. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br>The position of our government is that they are not prisoners of war whiel the positon of humaitarian agencies is that they are prisoners of war.<br><br>Another issue that is on my mind is that some of our lawmakes have expresed outradge of how big a deal this is claiming that we should be more concered with the fact our soilders are beign killed. I agree that Americans being killed in ocmbat is a concern but that is somethign we shoudl have thought about before <b>we</b> went to war. Soilders dieing in battle is a completly diferent thing then prisoners beign torured. As Americans we protect oruselvs wiht the 5th amendment and it is hypocritical not to aply the same protections to others. I wounder how much things would be diferent if it were American prisoners beign treated like this. I'm sure our administration woudl psuhc for what it has been calling Justice.
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Sakie
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Postby Sakie » Thu May 13, 2004 10:58 pm

<!--QuoteBegin-FelixLockhart+May 12 2004, 06:38 PM--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> (FelixLockhart @ May 12 2004, 06:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> Basically, the prison guards in US-controlled Iraq (UK and US guards) were severely abusing and torturing the POWs.  They then took pictures of this abuse, sent the pictures to their friends via internet, and some news agencies found the pictures and broke the story.<br><br>I may write an article about this myself, haven't decided yet.  Stay tuned <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://definecynical.mancubus.net/forum ... /smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br>now now felix they were not "Torturing" the POWs they were just abuseing them and know what happent to the guy who was captured? the Iraq guys decapataded him no they did not "chop" his head off not quickly done but they SAWED his head of so he felt it till he died thats toruring we just embarrised them and abused them thats what happend oh and the guys who did it are not in the millitary any more


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