Same-Gender Marraige

[Muninn]

<u>Eleven reasons why gays shouldn't get married...</u><br>1. Homosexuality is not natural, much like eyeglasses, polyester, and birth control.<br>2. Heterosexual marriages are valid because they produce children. Infertile couples and old people can’t legally get married because the world needs more children.<br>3. Obviously, gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children.<br>4. Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage is allowed, since Britney Spears’ 55-hour just-for-fun marriage was meaningful.<br>5. Heterosexual marriage has been around a long time and hasn’t changed at all; women are property, blacks can’t marry whites, and divorce is illegal.<br>6. Gay marriage should be decided by people, not the courts, because the majority-elected legislatures, not courts, have historically protected the rights of minorities.<br>7. Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That’s why we have only one religion in America.<br>8. Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall.<br>9. Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract.<br>10. Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. That’s why single parents are forbidden to raise children.<br>11. Gay marriage will change the foundation of society. Heterosexual marriage has been around for a long time, and we could never adapt to new social norms because we haven’t adapted to things like cars or longer lifespans.<br><br>I have quite a conservative family (especially my grandma) but i'm all for same-sex marriages, ideally i'd like them to be marriages and not civil unions since that still shows a little seperation.<br>Marriage is a concept, the only way it's going to be degraded is at the personal level of the individuals own prejudice, fear and bigotry.

[Miles E Traysandor]

<!--QuoteBegin-Jacob+May 18 2004, 01:32 PM--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> (Jacob @ May 18 2004, 01:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> 10. Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. Thats why single parents are forbidden to raise children.<br> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br>Excuse me, but I was raised by a single parent for the majority of my life. <b>There is nothing wrong with single parenthood, and last time I checked, it is not forbidden in any religion or country law to my knowledge.</b>

[Ankaris]

Er, Miles?<br><br><br>Example Of Oddity<br><br>3. Obviously, gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children.<br><br>4. Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage is allowed, since Britney Spears 55-hour just-for-fun marriage was meaningful.<br><br><br>I think Jacob's actually tearing apart those points, not listing them as valid reasons <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://definecynical.mancubus.net/forum ... /smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Zylo]

Yea, that was intended satire.

[Softpaw]

I've heard people who actually believe that list is ACCURATE, and defend its false logic with all their heart. The joys of activism.

[Ankaris]

Which is why sometimes, Felix, I really do despair for humanity <!--emo&:P--><img src='http://definecynical.mancubus.net/forum ... tongue.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tongue.gif' /><!--endemo--> <br><br>Nah, but seriously, how could anyone who actually read that list use it to try and argue AGAINST gay marriage?

[Henohenomoheji]

That list makes me laugh. it comforts me to know that no matter what happens there will always be somebody to make fun of it... except in the event of a... um... uh, what's the word? Where the whole world blows up or something?<br><br>I guess that's beside the point. Who wants to quote C.C.?!

[Sabre]

Reasons I'm for it.:<br><br>No reason to go against it.<br><br>I've never met a stereotypical gay. (like big gay al from southpark)<br><br>Ben and jerry ice cream.<br><br>Joe millionare makes less sence.<br><br>It dosent affect me.<br><br>It makes the KKK angry.

[Salad Man]

<!--QuoteBegin-Miles Cerulean Celebi Prower+May 18 2004, 03:40 PM--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> (Miles Cerulean Celebi Prower @ May 18 2004, 03:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> <!--QuoteBegin-Jacob+May 18 2004, 01:32 PM--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> (Jacob @ May 18 2004, 01:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> 10. Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. Thats why single parents are forbidden to raise children.<br> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br>Excuse me, but I was raised by a single parent for the majority of my life. <b>There is nothing wrong with single parenthood, and last time I checked, it is not forbidden in any religion or country law to my knowledge.</b> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br> Way to read the whole post, Miles.

[Miles E Traysandor]

<!--QuoteBegin-Salad Man+May 18 2004, 07:06 PM--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> (Salad Man @ May 18 2004, 07:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> <!--QuoteBegin-Miles Cerulean Celebi Prower+May 18 2004, 03:40 PM--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> (Miles Cerulean Celebi Prower @ May 18 2004, 03:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> <!--QuoteBegin-Jacob+May 18 2004, 01:32 PM--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> (Jacob @ May 18 2004, 01:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> 10. Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. Thats why single parents are forbidden to raise children.<br> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br>Excuse me, but I was raised by a single parent for the majority of my life. <b>There is nothing wrong with single parenthood, and last time I checked, it is not forbidden in any religion or country law to my knowledge.</b> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br>Way to read the whole post, Miles. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br> I did read the whole post.... though that bit did raise my ire, even though it was about the original topic on hand.

[Supersmoke]

I see no reason that's it wrong.<br><br>Why does anyone even <i>CARE</i>? <br><br>America is supposed to be a place of freedom and equality, as of that equal rights act of 19whatever. Racism against any race/gender is considered wrong. So why does the government feel that it can do it anyways by prohibiting gay marriage?<br><br>Those government dipwads that are against it are frickin hypocrites, if you ask me. <!--emo&<_<--><img src='http://definecynical.mancubus.net/forum ... ns/dry.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='dry.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[The_Sparrow_]

Hehe, I love that list. But I have seen so many people miss the intended satire and attack it<br><br><!--QuoteBegin--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> </td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> I've heard people who actually believe that list is ACCURATE, and defend its false logic with all their heart. The joys of activism. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br><br> <!--emo&:blink:--><img src='http://definecynical.mancubus.net/forum ... /blink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='blink.gif' /><!--endemo--> Never seen them before...

[Jerry Roosevelt]

Massachusetts rocks. Gay marriage forever.

[Softpaw]

I've done a LOT of activism and lobbying for gay equality, and I've met face-to-face with some of the most anti-gay people on the planet, and also some of the poorest debaters. I was on the verge of hanging up my protest gear and calling it quits, but Virginia recently passed a law making it impossible for same-sex couples to get any recognition at all, including a gay person writing their partner into their will. Therefore, I will once again be hitting the demonstration circuit around here, and I am going to fight this thing to the death. I heard something on a radio show that struck a chord with me. Instead of "If you don't like it, get out", we should be saying to each other "If you don't like it, change it". So, rather than jumping ship and heading for PA or Florida, I'm going to stay in Virginia and work my tail off trying to make it a more gay-friendly place. I'm done with apathy.<br><br>(Sorry for this semi-off-topic rant, but it had to be said and I was too busy posting something else in my LJ at the time)

[Tavis]

You know, that list is a prime example of satire, but it also contains many logical inconsistencies and makes assumptions that are completely invalid. I don't know where to begin to explain how badly those fail to express what they are supposed to express (namely that it is satire)<br><br>I was going to refrain on sharing my point of view until I was able to explain everything in a way that all of you would understand, but I cannot let such a careless message slip past this serious discussion without a response.<br><br>Clearly these are designed to mock those who do not support same-sex marriages, but people are not so quick to see that a lot of these statements that fail to argue <i>against</i> samesex marriages also fail to pose an argument <i>for</i> same-sex marriages.<br><br><!--QuoteBegin--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> </td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> 1. Homosexuality is not natural, much like eyeglasses, polyester, and birth control.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br>On the other hand arsenic <i>is</i> natural, but sufficient exposure is lethal. The argument of whether something is good for a person or not based on whether it is natural or not clearly cannot be used in favor for either side of the debate.<br><br><!--QuoteBegin--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> </td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> 2. Heterosexual marriages are valid because they produce children. Infertile couples and old people cant legally get married because the world needs more children.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br>That is not why heterosexual marriages are valid or legal. As for the legality of any type of marriage, that's for the legal system to determine.<br><br><!--QuoteBegin--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> </td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> 3. Obviously, gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br>I think we all know this was here purely for laughs. It is obvious that because it is impossible for members of the same sex to produce children (short of cloning and implanting the genetic material into an embryo), only straight parents can produce children, heterosexual AND homosexual. As for raising children, there is clearly no evidence that homosexuality can be passed on. It certainly doesn't appear genetic.<br><br><!--QuoteBegin--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> </td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> 4. Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage is allowed, since Britney Spears 55-hour just-for-fun marriage was meaningful.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br>I think that Britney Spears marriage was as much a mockery of marriage as anything else. I have a similar reaction to divorce, marraiges of convenience... marriage is about exchanging a vow, and in the context of religion, it also has the effect of exchanging that vow before a highly respected being of that religion such as a god. Breaking such a promise is something I do not take kindly.<br><br>When same-sex marriages are allowed, however, the legal definition of marriage WILL differ from those definitions in religious contexts that expressly forbid it. Note I never said they are "less meaningful," I am saying they differ.<br><br><!--QuoteBegin--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> </td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> 5. Heterosexual marriage has been around a long time and hasnt changed at all; women are property, blacks cant marry whites, and divorce is illegal.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br>The second half of this statement is completely unrelated to the first part. Saying something must be changed because other things unrelated to it have changed is a very weak argument. That is like saying that because the neighborhood suddenly replaces their cars with SUVs, I should not stick to using paint to color my home.<br><br><!--QuoteBegin--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> </td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> 6. Gay marriage should be decided by people, not the courts, because the majority-elected legislatures, not courts, have historically protected the rights of minorities.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br>It appears, though that the people are in favor of supporting minorities. Honestly, it doesn't matter who decides it; the matter will be decided to the peoples' satisfaction, whatever that decision may be. Whoever has the final say in this will have to answer to everyone else.<br><br><!--QuoteBegin--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> </td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> 7. Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. Thats why we have only one religion in America.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br>True, but only by some religions. The argument in this statement is only concerned with the legality of same-sex marriages, not of whether it is right. Same-sex marriage is not supported by many religions, including my own. Because of that, I have a personal as well as a religious objection to same sex marriages. However, it is precisely because this nation cannot favor one religion above another that I must respect its decision of whether or not to accept it.<br><br>Please be aware that even though I have a religious objection to same-sex marriage, it has no bearing on how I consider a person as an individual. I still see the same loving, caring soul I always do, and those people that have earned my respect have nothing to fear about opening up to things I may not find appealing.<br><br><!--QuoteBegin--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> </td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> 8. Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br>Not exactly. Actually this statement is not phrased as intended either: putting "Supported" before this statement will change the meaning greatly. Because a legal marriage also allows a married couple to receive benefits such as tax exemptions and other forms of government support, there will be the temptation for people not really interested in a marriage to do so for such things. This is an unfortunate side effect, but there is really nothing that can prevent that, since it happens in heterosexual "marriages of convenience" as well. The statement above is true, but like the others, not a compelling reason to vote for either side.<br><br><!--QuoteBegin--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> </td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> 9. Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br>"Opening the door to all kinds of crazy behavior" is known as the slippery-slope argument. It is an attempt to discredit a premise by trying to blow it out of proportion until the outsome is completely absurd. Because this statement does not paint an accurate representation of either side, it must be thrown out.<br><br><!--QuoteBegin--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> </td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> 10. Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. Thats why single parents are forbidden to raise children.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br>Many of us know counterexamples, cases where a single parent turned out just fine. The "forbidden" thing to which this stement refers is basically a means of protecting a child from being "adopted" by a single person. Couples are preferred for adoptive situations because there are sufficient resources to run a family when both are able to take some responsibility in a parental chore. It also minimizes the chance a single person would take the task of child raising seriously and protect the child from a potential pedophile. THAT'S why single parents are not recommended (in the adoption agency's point of view) to adopt children.<br><br><!--QuoteBegin--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> </td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> 11. Gay marriage will change the foundation of society. Heterosexual marriage has been around for a long time, and we could never adapt to new social norms because we havent adapted to things like cars or longer lifespans.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br>Society's foundations are constantly shaken as voices find ways to interact, especially now when anyone can find anyone else based on a basic belief. There are more underground societies in existence than ever before, connected on a global scale. All it takes is for one of those societies to surface to cause the rest of the world to be forced to acknowledge its existence.<br><br>Okay.. I think I am done writing here for now. Thank you for your time.