Ozy's "cold" past . . .

A place to talk about anything (that doesn't belong in the other forums).

Moderator: Æron

Ruedii-X

Postby Ruedii-X » Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:35 pm

If anyone hasn't picked up on the hints thus far, you are either seriously dense, not paying attention, or I'm to damn smart and paralleled in thought to David for my own good. It may be just the later, Millie seems to suffer from the same thing in the comic.<br><br>Sometimes Lewelyn has little tact in his subtile but excentric humor, of all places. I'm not sure exactly what he is saying, but I have a good clue. Ozy is, after all, an Artic fox. The question is who's all the ice comments pointing too, Ozy or his parents. If it is his parrents, for once Millie might get some use out of a hair drier.<br><br>As for Millie's dad, David never finished that storyline. Although I'm sure with the hints from this one (Dragons make sure to know about family and friends), foxs' incredible family loyalty, even when wrongdoing is involved and Millie's father's location, Lewellyn's orders to move near Millie probably did not come from the dragon hiarchy at all. I may be looking to far into that one, but I don't see Locke as one to abadon responsiblity. He even tried to fulfill his responsiblity as king of Greater Lewelynville after realizing it wasn't all it was cracked up to be, but finally upon realizing it was too much for him he handed domain back over to it's rightful owner.

User avatar
Henohenomoheji
Posts: 2814
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2003 12:44 am
Location: to
Contact:

Postby Henohenomoheji » Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:53 pm

You're not trying to start something, are ya?
Miyo! Chikara no chizu!<br><br>Living proof that Ninja and Pirates can live together in peace, harmony, and fun at the expense of ye hapless townsfolk.<br><br>"<br>< e<br> -|-|-/ < <br>< e <br>_________/ <br>-------------------------<br><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>Hey... On page 375 it says "Jeebus"...</span>

User avatar
Richard K Niner
Posts: 4297
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 5:08 pm
Location: On hiatus
Contact:

Postby Richard K Niner » Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:55 pm

<!--QuoteBegin-Ruedii-X+Dec 1 2004, 07:35 AM--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> (Ruedii-X @ Dec 1 2004, 07:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> If anyone hasn't picked up on the hints thus far, you are either seriously dense, not paying attention, or I'm to damn smart and paralleled in thought to David for my own good.  It may be just the later...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br>That is definately <b>not</b> the best way to introduce yourself. I dislike arrogance, and I'm sure that goes for everyone here. Also, you misspelled "too" and "latter"; it really does not help your argument.<br><br><!--QuoteBegin-Ruedii-X+Dec 1 2004, 07:35 AM--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> (Ruedii-X @ Dec 1 2004, 07:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> Sometimes Lewelyn has little tact in his subtile but excentric humor, of all places.  I'm not sure exactly what he is saying, but I have a good clue. Ozy is, after all, an Artic fox.  The question is who's all the ice comments pointing too, Ozy or his parents.  If it is his parrents, for once Millie might get some use out of a hair drier.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br>I'm pretty sure the comment was pointed at Ozy's parents (and was a reference to when Llewellyn said Ozy's mom was an Amana freezer).<br><br><!--QuoteBegin-Ruedii-X+Dec 1 2004, 07:35 AM--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> (Ruedii-X @ Dec 1 2004, 07:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> As for Millie's dad, David never finished that storyline.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br>What didn't he finish? We know who her father is, and how she came to be.<br><br><!--QuoteBegin-Ruedii-X+Dec 1 2004, 07:35 AM--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> (Ruedii-X @ Dec 1 2004, 07:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> Although I'm sure with the hints from this one (Dragons make sure to know about family and friends), foxs' incredible family loyalty, even when wrongdoing is involved and Millie's father's location, Lewellyn's orders to move near Millie probably did not come from the dragon hiarchy at all.  I may be looking to far into that one, but I don't see Locke as one to abadon responsiblity.  He even tried to fulfill his responsiblity as king of Greater Lewelynville after realizing it wasn't all it was cracked up to be, but finally upon realizing it was too much for him he handed domain back over to it's rightful owner.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br>I was under the impression that Llewellyn lived there before Ozy or Millie came along - it would explain how he was able to set up Locke with Ms. Mudd.<br><br>This being said, wouldn't this topic be more appropriate for General Discussion?
<center>Image
K9U | Dog House | Av rotation</center>

User avatar
NHJ BV
Posts: 1232
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 3:27 pm

Postby NHJ BV » Wed Dec 01, 2004 4:50 pm

First, I was waiting for some conclusion to your post that never came (what are you trying to say?), and second, this indeed belongs in General Discussion.
Zen Master Ikyoto said: "The world is vast and wide. Why, then, do you wear pants in which you could smuggle Volkswagens?"

User avatar
hdofu
Posts: 985
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2003 4:04 pm
Location: Maryland
Contact:

Postby hdofu » Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:00 pm

I still think his father was the Taco Bell Dog
[url=http://www.wikitsune.com][img]http://www.wikitsune.com/wikitsune.png[/img][/url]

User avatar
Ozymandias
Posts: 1901
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 3:21 pm

Postby Ozymandias » Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:19 pm

lol I'd forgotten about the Taco Bell thing.<br><br>But just the one post? I'd love for you to stay a while and elaborate. You made a lot of statements without much justification.
The end is nigh!

User avatar
GhostWay
Posts: 1381
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2004 7:55 pm
Location: Somewhere, probably
Contact:

Postby GhostWay » Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:29 pm

Alright, this is a little scathing, but I tried to be as civil as possible.<br><br>First of all, I'd like to say that you should be a bit more curteous, Ruedii. I'm not sure what kind of forums you've posted on before, but I highly doubt you'll be accepted here if the first thing you do is call us idiotic clods.<br><br>Now, I'm not trying to be rude, but let me say this. You are reading too far into the comic. DCS <i>may</i> drop a hint here and there, but I doubt everything ever said in the comic has some relevance to a future story arc. The fact that this arc has incorporated the "Amana freezer" reference is most likely coincidental. I'm not sure DCS even knew Ozy was an arctic fox when that remark was made. In case you don't know what I'm talking about, see Question 17 of the <a href='http://www.ozyandmillie.org/faq.html' target='_blank'>O & M FAQ:</a><br><!--QuoteBegin-Official Ozy & Millie FAQ+--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> (Official Ozy & Millie FAQ)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> <b>17. What species is Ozy?</b><br><br>A small arctic fox. I'm not sure why he isn't white in winter. I used to think he was a wolf, but then a friend showed me some pictures of <a href='http://www.ozyandmillie.org/images/ArcticFoxPups.jpg' target='_blank'>arctic fox kits</a> which were absolute ringers for how I draw Ozy. This convinced me. It has also resulted in some confusion.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br>Again, I'm not sure when that was written, so I have no clue wheter DCS was actually thinking of a large story arc a year in advance.<br><br>I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "ice comments". The only one I can think of offhand is the "Amana freezer" reference, which has just recently resurfaced. Keep in mind that a lot of Llewellyn's comments are simply there for humour value. DCS just took one of the stranger ones from about a year ago and incorporated it into this arc.<br><br>Furthermore, what "ice comments" are you reffering to? It would be nice for you to elaborate on this, but all I can think of at the moment is the "Amana freezer" reference from a year ago.<br><br>I also agree with NHJ BV; your post lacks purpose. If you want to come here and speak your thoughts, try to organize them into a cohesive message. Otherwise, your post is just a sack of wild speculation.<br><br>Again, apologies for the harshness, I just don't take well to people who insult my intelligence, and that of others, without first talking to and getting to know those people.<br><br><br>DISCLAIMER: These comments are all based on observations. Any comments regarding DCS' (David Craig Simpson, the author/artist) thoughts and/or methods should be taken as speculation, NOT facts.
<i>Hold the newsreader's nose squarely, waiter, or friendly milk will countermand my trousers.</i>

User avatar
Tavis
Moderator (retired)
Posts: 2866
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2003 5:10 pm
Location: Pasadena, TX
Contact:

Postby Tavis » Wed Dec 01, 2004 11:15 pm

The <a href='http://www.ozyandmillie.org/2002/om20020720.html' target='_blank'>Amana freezer</a> comment refers to a strip in July 2002. It was already obvious in 2001 that Ozy had arctic genes in the arc about Ozy's <a href='http://www.ozyandmillie.org/2001/om20010102.html' target='_blank'>genetic adaptation</a>. Did this partially motivate DC to write about an Amana freezer later? Well, it's hard to say for sure where David plans to go on the current arc, and I would seriously doubt someone who claims to be thinking on the same thoughts as David Simpson would be so lacking in verbal skills. As for unfinished storylines, all storylines have room for more to be added. That is what allows us to revisit them later. However, as far as discovering the identity of Millie's dad is concerned, that story arc has been completed.

Ruedii-X

Postby Ruedii-X » Thu Dec 02, 2004 7:49 am

<!--QuoteBegin-NHJ BV+Dec 1 2004, 04:50 PM--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> (NHJ BV @ Dec 1 2004, 04:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> First, I was waiting for some conclusion to your post that never came (what are you trying to say?), and second, this indeed belongs in General Discussion. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br> Sorry, I forgot to post the link to the strip I was on topic too, it's on the current strip line, latest one, either discussion is fine.<br><br>Anyways, that was concluded. Maybe I was too subtile . . . Like I said, I'm too smart for my own good, and sometimes am inconsiderate in that way. (I usually assosiate with two other people of compairable intellegence.) Intellegence not always something good, it's bad side frankly sucks if you actually payed enough attention to Milly's emotions, and some of the reactions to Lewellyns more obscure statements, or the reclusion of Ozy. (Those are the 3 highest intellegence characters in the strip.)<br><br>As for what I was hinting at. Lewellyn's ironic sense of humor sometimes goes overboard. I have a feeling that Ozy's parent has to do with a large block of ice. Either he was found in it, or that's where his parents are (or both.) Needless to say if it is the former, Millie will be getting the hair drier *LOL*<br>

Ruedii-X

Postby Ruedii-X » Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:09 am

<!--QuoteBegin-Richard K Niner+Dec 1 2004, 12:55 PM--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> (Richard K Niner @ Dec 1 2004, 12:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> <!--QuoteBegin-Ruedii-X+Dec 1 2004, 07:35 AM--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> (Ruedii-X @ Dec 1 2004, 07:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> If anyone hasn't picked up on the hints thus far, you are either seriously dense, not paying attention, or I'm to damn smart and paralleled in thought to David for my own good.  It may be just the later...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br>That is definately <b>not</b> the best way to introduce yourself. I dislike arrogance, and I'm sure that goes for everyone here. Also, you misspelled "too" and "latter"; it really does not help your argument.<br><br><!--QuoteBegin-Ruedii-X+Dec 1 2004, 07:35 AM--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> (Ruedii-X @ Dec 1 2004, 07:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> Sometimes Lewelyn has little tact in his subtile but excentric humor, of all places.  I'm not sure exactly what he is saying, but I have a good clue. Ozy is, after all, an Artic fox.  The question is who's all the ice comments pointing too, Ozy or his parents.  If it is his parrents, for once Millie might get some use out of a hair drier.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br>I'm pretty sure the comment was pointed at Ozy's parents (and was a reference to when Llewellyn said Ozy's mom was an Amana freezer).<br><br><!--QuoteBegin-Ruedii-X+Dec 1 2004, 07:35 AM--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> (Ruedii-X @ Dec 1 2004, 07:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> As for Millie's dad, David never finished that storyline.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br>What didn't he finish? We know who her father is, and how she came to be.<br><br><!--QuoteBegin-Ruedii-X+Dec 1 2004, 07:35 AM--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> (Ruedii-X @ Dec 1 2004, 07:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> Although I'm sure with the hints from this one (Dragons make sure to know about family and friends), foxs' incredible family loyalty, even when wrongdoing is involved and Millie's father's location, Lewellyn's orders to move near Millie probably did not come from the dragon hiarchy at all.  I may be looking to far into that one, but I don't see Locke as one to abadon responsiblity.  He even tried to fulfill his responsiblity as king of Greater Lewelynville after realizing it wasn't all it was cracked up to be, but finally upon realizing it was too much for him he handed domain back over to it's rightful owner.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br>I was under the impression that Llewellyn lived there before Ozy or Millie came along - it would explain how he was able to set up Locke with Ms. Mudd.<br><br>This being said, wouldn't this topic be more appropriate for General Discussion? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br> <!--QuoteBegin--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> </td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> That is definately <b>not</b> the best way to introduce yourself.  I dislike arrogance, and I'm sure that goes for everyone here.  Also, you misspelled "too" and "latter"; it really does not help your argument.<br><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br>Calm down, sheesh, have a sense of humor! "too smart for my own damn good" is NOT a thing to brag about, as people like your's reaction obviously shows. There are only a few people in the world who understand me, so I don't expect you to. If you don't get a sarcastic joke, just drop it and don't complain.<br><br>BTW, don't be a spelling police, nobody likes them and it's bad Netiquit.<br><br><!--QuoteBegin--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> </td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> <br>What didn't he finish? We know who her father is, and how she came to be.<br><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br>The rest of the story. See rest of post, or you did as your next statement said.<br><br><!--QuoteBegin--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> </td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> <br>I was under the impression that Llewellyn lived there before Ozy or Millie came along - it would explain how he was able to set up Locke with Ms. Mudd.<br><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br>No, he lived somewhere else with the same sofa, remember, he was on a college campus at the time, not a suburb. You didn't observe the backgrounds did you. (Like I said, I am extremely good at subleties, and some people don't pick that up. I appologize for assumptions.) You didn't read the first few strips when Ozy moved in, did you.<br><br><!--QuoteBegin--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> </td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> <br>This being said, wouldn't this topic be more appropriate for General Discussion?<br><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br><br>The second part is a genearal topic flow from the other primary topic, based on the current strip, but I submit, as the moderators agreed with you. It was only meant as a side note.

Ruedii-X

Postby Ruedii-X » Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:13 am

<!--QuoteBegin-GhostWay+Dec 1 2004, 05:29 PM--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> (GhostWay @ Dec 1 2004, 05:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> Alright, this is a little scathing, but I tried to be as civil as possible.<br><br>First of all, I'd like to say that you should be a bit more curteous, Ruedii. I'm not sure what kind of forums you've posted on before, but I highly doubt you'll be accepted here if the first thing you do is call us idiotic clods.<br><br>Now, I'm not trying to be rude, but let me say this. You are reading too far into the comic. DCS <i>may</i> drop a hint here and there, but I doubt everything ever said in the comic has some relevance to a future story arc. The fact that this arc has incorporated the "Amana freezer" reference is most likely coincidental. I'm not sure DCS even knew Ozy was an arctic fox when that remark was made. In case you don't know what I'm talking about, see Question 17 of the <a href='http://www.ozyandmillie.org/faq.html' target='_blank'>O & M FAQ:</a><br><!--QuoteBegin-Official Ozy & Millie FAQ+--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> (Official Ozy & Millie FAQ)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> <b>17. What species is Ozy?</b><br><br>A small arctic fox. I'm not sure why he isn't white in winter. I used to think he was a wolf, but then a friend showed me some pictures of <a href='http://www.ozyandmillie.org/images/ArcticFoxPups.jpg' target='_blank'>arctic fox kits</a> which were absolute ringers for how I draw Ozy. This convinced me. It has also resulted in some confusion.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br>Again, I'm not sure when that was written, so I have no clue wheter DCS was actually thinking of a large story arc a year in advance.<br><br>I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "ice comments". The only one I can think of offhand is the "Amana freezer" reference, which has just recently resurfaced. Keep in mind that a lot of Llewellyn's comments are simply there for humour value. DCS just took one of the stranger ones from about a year ago and incorporated it into this arc.<br><br>Furthermore, what "ice comments" are you reffering to? It would be nice for you to elaborate on this, but all I can think of at the moment is the "Amana freezer" reference from a year ago.<br><br>I also agree with NHJ BV; your post lacks purpose. If you want to come here and speak your thoughts, try to organize them into a cohesive message. Otherwise, your post is just a sack of wild speculation.<br><br>Again, apologies for the harshness, I just don't take well to people who insult my intelligence, and that of others, without first talking to and getting to know those people.<br><br><br>DISCLAIMER: These comments are all based on observations. Any comments regarding DCS' (David Craig Simpson, the author/artist) thoughts and/or methods should be taken as speculation, NOT facts. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br> <!--QuoteBegin--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> </td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> <br>Furthermore, what "ice comments" are you reffering to?  It would be nice for you to elaborate on this, but all I can think of at the moment is the "Amana freezer" reference from a year ago.<br><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br><br>He keeps repeating the word ice. (Ice cream, etc.) through the whole comic story arc. Like I said, some people don't pick up on subtilties like I do.

Ruedii-X

Postby Ruedii-X » Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:17 am

<!--QuoteBegin-hdofu+Dec 1 2004, 05:00 PM--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> (hdofu @ Dec 1 2004, 05:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> I still think his father was the Taco Bell Dog <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br> <!--QuoteBegin--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> </td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> <br>I still think his father was the Taco Bell Dog<br><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br>Sounds more like a story Millie would make up than Lewelyn. It's too obscure even for Lewelyn.<br><br>p.s. I like your Avitar.<br><br>I've got to get a scanner to draw and import mine. Only problem: No money = No scanner<br><br>My drawing isn't that good, but I can clean things up beautifully on the computer.

User avatar
Foxchild
Posts: 2334
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2003 4:09 pm
Location: Herndon, VA - USA

Postby Foxchild » Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:23 am

We tend to pick up on a lot of things, Ruedii-x. We've had entire forum games dedicated to that, and several philosophica discussions that have gone far into detail most, including many of us, don't understand. We're more intelligent than your giving us credit for, here. We may have short attention spans, but we know our way around the block once or twice around <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://definecynical.mancubus.net/forum/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--><br><br>and for the record, I like the taco bell dog! [/randomness]
If you've done things right, people won't be sure if you've done anything at all.

Ruedii-X

Postby Ruedii-X » Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:56 am

<!--QuoteBegin-FoxChild+Dec 2 2004, 08:23 AM--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> (FoxChild @ Dec 2 2004, 08:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> We tend to pick up on a lot of things, Ruedii-x. We've had entire forum games dedicated to that, and several philosophica discussions that have gone far into detail most, including many of us, don't understand. We're more intelligent than your giving us credit for, here. We may have short attention spans, but we know our way around the block once or twice around <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://definecynical.mancubus.net/forum/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--><br><br>and for the record, I like the taco bell dog! [/randomness] <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br> I was being a little humorous. Anyways, I seemed to hit a sore spot on some members so I might want to try to be a wee bit more tactful with my friendly jabs. <span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>To say the least</span><br><br>Anyways, some people seem to have trouble with picking up subtilties. It has to do with the ability to combine different logics to produce an accurate estamate. I have an uncanny ability for this, I can pick up everything from facial expressions, gestures, background, fruadian statements, and throw them all together into a fairly accurate picture.<br><br>For instance I can tell Ozy and Millie are based on a certain personality type based on where their eyes look when they say things. Millie is slightly agnostic, but not really seeking anything, but Ozy is pretty much satisfied that it doesn't matter who's in charge of the Universe. Surprisingly, Millie IS reclusive like Ozy, but her impulsive nature overrides that part of her psychi. I can read it because her eyes point at people's nose, not their eyes, as does Ozy, Ms. Mudd, and Lewelyn. Avery's fluxuate, as do Timulty's, and all others look streight at the eyes.<br><br>BTW, I think the Taco bell dog is cute and halerious. Unfortunately, I can't condone canibalism, even for canines.


Return to “Anything”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests