RocketGirl: Animator

[Dr. Sticks]

Well, given that faith has been used to be a much bigger asshole, I think I'm justified in fighting back.

Between the blocking of scientific research like stem cells, to blocking gay marriage and abortion, to genital mutilation, to the indoctrination of the young, religion has a lot to answer for, and needs to be pushed back against.

that's seriously the dumbest, butthurtest thing I've ever read.

[RocketGirl]

that's seriously the dumbest, butthurtest thing I've ever read.

Exactly how do you figure?

You're sounding like you've never done any research into the subject at all.
Look up a series on YouTube called "Enemies of Reason".

[Trance]

that's seriously the dumbest, butthurtest thing I've ever read.

And this is the low point of the discussion. Just stop this, for Non-Specific Deity's sake.

[RocketGirl]

And this is the low point of the discussion.

I rather agree, actually.

[Dr. Sticks]

errr, because you would basically insist to any christian that mentioned their belief, that they were wrong, right off the bat. I'm assuming my statement is true, because I've already said it several times and you defended it, rather than deny it. That's being an asshole because not all christians think it's wrong that you're gay, or that you support abortion, stem cell, are anti-the-inquisition, are anti-slavery, or whatever. many of them AGREE with you on everything but the actual fact that god isn't real. You're ignorant of diversity. pants, it's REALLY hard to not invoke Godwin's Law right now (oh wait, I just did).

[Segovia]

errr, because you would basically insist to any christian that mentioned their belief, that they were wrong, right off the bat. I'm assuming my statement is true, because I've already said it several times and you defended it, rather than deny it. That's being an asshole because not all christians think it's wrong that you're gay, or that you support abortion, stem cell, are anti-the-inquisition, are anti-slavery, or whatever. You're ignorant of diversity. pants, it's REALLY hard to not invoke Godwin's Law right now (oh wait, I just did).

QFT

[klimt]

err, well personally I think it's a lot more important to NOT be an asshole that offends everyone,

i agree with this but, theres a difference between being politically correct (not saying something because it may offend - this is generally a bad thing) and a general level of respect combined with tact...its been my experience that the zealots on either side of the issue at hand lack the latter. nothing here disproves that.

[Dr. Sticks]

I'm neither, but I will admit that I'm being overly zealous of "not being a strongly critical atheist" and that this argument is embarrassing.

[Trance]

i agree with this but, theres a difference between being politically correct (not saying something because it may offend - this is generally a bad thing) and a general level of respect combined with tact...its been my experience that the zealots on either side of the issue at hand lack the latter. nothing here disproves that.

Yes. This. Precisely.

The last thing we need around here are rows, especially about the big issues of the world that can't be changed by just us. It just makes people not like each other.

[RocketGirl]

errr, because you would basically insist to any christian that mentioned their belief, that they were wrong, right off the bat.

Here's an idea--just a thought, really--but how about I tell you what I would do, rather than you dictating it to me? How would that be, hmm?

Because thus far, every time you've tried to tell me what I'd do, you've been rather thoroughly wrong. In this case, I would not tell any christian--and there's no reason to single out christians--that they are wrong, but rather than they need to provide evidence before I'll grant that they're right. There's a huge, huge difference.

I'm assuming my statement is true, because I've already said it several times and you defended it, rather than deny it.

I've done no such thing. I've, in fact, bent over backwards to do exactly the opposite; I've stated flat-out that if empirical evidence is presented that supports my opposition's case, my mind will change.

That's being an asshole because not all christians

...and muslims and jews and buddhists and practitioners of voodoo, and anybody else who prefers unproved faith over facts, however uncomfortable...

think it's wrong that you're gay, or that you support abortion, stem cell, are anti-the-inquisition, are anti-slavery, or whatever.

And yet, enough do, and enough make the lives of other people quite unacceptably uncomfortable, that when coupled with the lack of respect for empirical fact, religion is anything but harmless.

You're ignorant of diversity.

Wow. Just wow. Speaking as a multi-racial lesbian geek/goth, myself, you couldn't BE more wrong.

This isn't about cultures, it's about having command of the facts. Period. Religion is not a race, it a worldview, and one based on a rejection of knowledge; fighting against that is not bigotry, it's education.

[Trance]

*waits for dust to settle*

...well. Does anyone else besides me see the irony from this whole thing?

Hostility closes minds and opens mouths. Namecalling seems to be inevitable in such an atmosphere. Civility > belligerency, every time.

And you wanted to join the peacekeeping forum staff, Sticks?

[Segovia]

I shocked that I didn't start this.

[Trance]

You certainly contributed to it, though. Bad Roger.

[RocketGirl]

Hostility closes minds and opens mouths.

Indeed, it does.

And anybody who watched Episode 03 should know that hostility is NOT what I'm offering here; the lack of a deity or faith in the unprovable does not preclude the possibility of a better world for us all. As I said, the responsibility lies on our shoulders.

Namecalling seems to be inevitable in such an atmosphere.

Yes, well, I did my level best to not engage in that, despite being repeatedly called an asshole. My patience is not infinite, but I'v endured worse.

[Segovia]

One step at a time trance. But I did try my best to stay out of it.